Sign in to follow this  
Cavadus

Vote! Or Don't.

24 posts in this topic

[JUSTIFY][imgA=left]http://47th.info/images/historyflag.jpg[/imgA]It's election day. If you actually know what the fuck is going on and have a grasp of the current political discourse make sure to vote. Of course, if you don't follow politics or the news at all or just flat out don't give shit please don't.

 

Voting predicated on ignorance because of some forced superfluous belief that it's your civic duty isn't virtuous.

 

Anyways, I'll admit that this is my first election as a Libertarian. I voted strictly Libertarian on my ballot. I was contemplating voting strategically to keep the dichotomy of the government checked but in the end I decided I'd vote for what I actually believed in and I'm glad I did.

 

So here's to hoping Ron Paul is sworn in as the 44th President of the United States of America come January:p

 

And since we're being all political I'll leave you with one of my very favorite quotes from the politician who inspired me to make my own decisions on issues and stop being a slave to either party:

"I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice! And let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue!"

-Barry Goldwater

[/JUSTIFY]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No on 47!

 

As long as the ads stop I don't care who wins at this point. Although I did vote yes to tax the shit out of the oil companies here in Colorado since they don't have to pay the same as they do in any other state.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Guest Draconis

Well Kav, unfortunately ignorance doesn't seem to correlate with apathy.

 

And ignorant people will feel the same need to see themselves as 'good citizens' as everyone else.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Cavadus

Just when I think California couldn't possibly be any more fucked up they go and pass proposition 8.

 

How the hell has this shit not come before the U.S. Supreme Court yet? FFS.

 

And holy hell my state almost elected Al Franken to the senate. Unbelievable...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm sure by now various law suits such as ones about anti discrimination have been filed on behalf Californians. I wouldn't expect the issue to go down with out a long, drawn out fight. Just the fact that they want to write discrimination into the CA constitution is gonna make this interesting.

 

If this thing gets entered into law, I don't see why these well funded christian groups wont be able to start adding other overtly christian doctrine into various state constitutions, using this one as precedent. This opens up the possibility of state mandated religion, anti semitism and many other nasty things.

 

If two people of the same gender getting married can legally constitute infringement on freedom of other people then we are in deep shit.

 

 

 

 

On the other hand, Go Obama!! That was easily the most powerful awesome moment leading up to and including his acceptance speech. The sheer power and emotion being generated by the crowd was amazing. I'm pleased the McCain camp didn't opt for the long drawn out battle like the Bush did when he lost his election.

 

 

To recap

 

 

 

 

OBAMA FTW!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Guest Cavadus

[JUSTIFY]Obama doesn't really do much for me. His voting record speaks for itself (the most liberal and partisan member of the entire senate) and I really don't think he's going to have "the stuff" he needs to muster to keep Pelosi and Reid and check.

 

I also really, really, really, really dislike the tax welfare platform he ran on. And the fact he's anti-nuclear, anti-oil, and apparently wishes to bankrupt the coal industry while simultaneously creating his own Brownshirts (which is humorous in a scary way).

 

And then there's the fact he's a socialist (so is McCain, and every other asshole that voted for the bailout. They can all die in a fire IMO).

 

Bwom, the two party system blows ass.

 

Politics aside, I did find it quite amazing when a reporter summed up the election by stating something to the affect, "The former capital of the Confederacy has voted to put an African-American into the office of the president." That's simply remarkable and it's hard not to be proud of that.[/JUSTIFY]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Draconis
If two people of the same gender getting married can legally constitute infringement on freedom of other people then we are in deep shit.
I doubt that the official basis for Prop 8 was the infringement of other peoples freedom. Though that may be how it was sold to the voters.

 

I hope this eventually leads to the state getting the hell out of marriage (and the "family") entirely.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I doubt that the official basis for Prop 8 was the infringement of other peoples freedom. Though that may be how it was sold to the voters.

 

I hope this eventually leads to the state getting the hell out of marriage (and the "family") entirely.

 

The wording is fairly straightforward, very few words. The significance of it and how it was sold to voters is the astounding part. Anyway, I was right in guessing that various lawsuits have already been filed to get the measure declared unconstitutional, see the constitution already had section that declares equality for all. So this very obviously violates that and they have a strong case against the ban being in the state constitution.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I doubt that the official basis for Prop 8 was the infringement of other peoples freedom. Though that may be how it was sold to the voters.

Are you from Backwards World? The purpose of Proposition 8 was to deny marriage rights to same-sex couples. It was sold via the most expensive campaign in history as everything else under the sun. The "yes on 8" ads talked about churches being forced to marry same-sex couples (a lie) schools being forced to teach sex-ed to kids (a lie) and so on. The one thing the "yes on 8" ads did not do was tell the truth, which is "we don't want the faggots to marry."

 

That's all it is.

 

By the way, I married my spouse Kim in California in September, so I'm quite aware of how it's played out.

 

(Is she still my spouse? fuck, I don't know now. How about you? Were you married yesterday? Are you still married today? Are you SURE? Did some Mormon fuckers spew lies and hate and get 52% of an entire state to vote to take away your rights? Because that happened to me this year, and I'm just little bit annoyed about it. That's the kind of bullshit stress I don't need in my life.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Guest Draconis
The purpose of Proposition 8 was to deny marriage rights to same-sex couples.
I am aware of that. But it is not based on the idea that same-sex marriage infringes on the rights of other people, which was mentioned by Campbell. Better to attack its true weaknesses, I'd say.

 

By the way, I married my spouse Kim in California in September, so I'm quite aware of how it's played out.
I know, you've mentioned it on here before. If I were you I would be furious.

 

Is she still my spouse?
Yes, according to what I heard on the news. I did a little searching and found this news article.

 

FWIW, I looked into the details of the proposition. From what I can make out of the legaleze, it will add the line "Only marriage between a man and a woman is valid or recognized in California." to the bottom of section 7 under Article 1 (DECLARATION OF RIGHTS).

 

At the very top of that section it states "A person may not be deprived of life, liberty, or property without due process of law or denied equal protection of the laws; ..." There follows a wall of text having something to do with forced school busing. If I'm right, it will go right after this sub section:

 

" (B) A citizen or class of citizens may not be granted privileges or immunities not granted on the same terms to all citizens."

 

Maybe someone can show me where I got it wrong.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Cavadus
But it is not based on the idea that same-sex marriage infringes on the rights of other people...

 

That's exactly what proposition 8 was based on actually. That somehow same sex marriages violates the rights of heterosexual couples.

 

Here is the title of the Prop 8 website:

Restoring Marriage & Protecting California's Children

 

http://www.protectmarriage.com/

 

This particular excerpt from the Prop 8 website is particularly fucking offensive and disgusting:

It protects our children from being taught in public schools that “same-sex marriage” is the same as traditional marriage, and prevents other consequences to Californians who will be forced to not just be tolerant of gay lifestyles, but face mandatory compliance regardless of their personal beliefs.

 

Seriously, every single person who voted for that proposition should be burned at the stake for bigotry as far as I'm concerned.

 

And Nova, I have a question for you about this. Since the economy went south I liquidated a lot of the bonds I had invested my Army money in and moved it into the stock market (c'mon, this is a buyer's market and it's gonna be a long damn time before spiders are ever this cheap again) and I'd like to liquidate another bond and donate it to one of the civil rights groups fighting prop 8. Which would one would you want me to donate to?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Our marriage is registered on Equality California's website. I'd post a link but their ate-up front end puts a crazy stupid unique hash in the URL for every visitor. It's the #1 result on a Google search. Anyway, go to the wedding registry and you can find our registry by my first name: Nova. I checked, I'm the only one with that first name registered there.

 

I am quite angry about this, but I cannot sustain 24/7 righteous rage. It'll burn me out. Let's just say that I contain fantastic unrealized potential for violent havoc against my avowed enemies and leave it at that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'll be pissed off for you when you get tired. Dear god, I went to an all male Catholic school (The land where no gay shall enter... :rolleyes:), grew up perfectly heterosexual, and am having the gay couple that introduced my fiance and I in my wedding. I'd just like to line up these assholes who voted for this and slap them, then introduce them to a bunch of gay people. Show them that they don't have acid blood, they don't breathe fire, that gayness is not contagious, and that gays can't influence them to become gay just by being near them or wearing pink scarves. I can't beleive that people still think this way.

 

Hopefully all the dumb old people who can't figure out why the state is STILL involved in marriage or even know one person who's gay will die soon.

 

One thing I can say, being as WASP'ish as humanly possible and living in the land of whities, that race wasn't an issue with any of my friends in this election. I was surprised, I thought at least one or two would slip and spout the old N word. I guess I don't give them enough credit for being open minded enough to accept a President with mixed racial heritage. It's a start. Hopefully this sort of acceptance will spread to the gay community as well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In what is an ironic twist, according to the exit poll surveys, a lot of the folks who voted yes were African Americans who (and here's the irony) had gone to the trouble to vote when they might not have, so they could vote for Obama. Kinda like a double edge sword. There was no way the Mormon's and other religious hate mongerer's could have mustered the numbers with out that black conservative religious vote.

 

Oh and the next thing I expect to see is those overzealous asshat christian lawyers targeting those who have been married already and suing em to get the marriage annuled or some such bullshit. I bet they go after the celebrities first...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Guest Cavadus
...that black conservative religious vote.

 

The reason blacks voted for prop 8 had nothing to do with their "conservative" ideology (ROFLMAO). Not to mention you completely contradicted yourself with: (1) blacks going to vote for Obama; and (2) blacks engaging their "conservative" ideology to vote down 8.

 

Did religion play a part in the black vote? Meh, maybe. Not as much as it did with hispanics, I can guarantee that.

 

The black community in general is just homophobic. Even Barack Obama thinks so. Obviously the op-ed who wrote that piece was dead ass wrong. More:

 

http://blackinformant.wordpress.com/2005/07/19/homosexuality-and-the-black-church/

http://www.springerlink.com/content/g473738k27375126/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
To guess how someone will vote on gay marriage, find out their age, gender, party affiliation and how often they go to church.

 

This is probably the reason. The Christian Church (Any church of any Christian affiliation) is usually behind the times when it comes to social issues. We can't even get women a fair share in a lot of Christian based religions. How long have they been able to vote? Also, for some unknown reason, people still believe that it's gay people who are molesting children. It's not the gays! It's your quiet next door neighbor who would probably be a serial killer if he couldn't molest those choir boys.

 

Plus, never underestimate the PWT and good ol' boy vote. You know they don't want no gays marryin' nobody nowhere nohow. But they sure will teach you how to kiss yer sister, yeehaw! :P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Did religion play a part in the black vote? Meh, maybe. Not as much as it did with hispanics, I can guarantee that.

 

It's embarrassingly true, the majority of hispanics are Catholic*sigh*Need I say more...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A little clarification. In my experience, black folk tend to vote liberal but also be more conservative in their religious than say white people. In other words a white person is more likely to be religious and vote conservative whereas black might be conservative religious but vote liberal on account of the GOP traditionally having little to offer the supposed minority. Also, you have conservative conservative black folk who might normally have voted for McCain or not at all coming out in numbers to vote for Obama instead, but remaining conservative on the rest of the issues.

 

Now, as far as the poll and voting are concerned, given a choice on various "moral" issues, and given the fact that most churches were pro 8, Black folk were more inclined to vote yes on 8 while still voting for Obama, and the fact that Obama is black caused a lot more people to vote than might have otherwise. Since they were there, they went ahead and voted with their church on 8. At least thats what the article and the exit poll suggested.

 

Now, this is a huge generalization. I'm not trying to characterize anyone, just explaining a possible cause for 8 to have passed (based on exit polls) when its such a retarded idea.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here's a little gem I just found. It was embedded in an interview about her expensive clothes, but I find it revealing nonetheless.

 

In an interview with the Anchorage Daily News, Palin faulted the policies of the Bush administration for the defeat of the GOP ticket, and said, "it's amazing that we did as well as we did."

 

"I think the Republican ticket represented too much of the status quo, too much of what had gone on in these last eight years, that Americans were kind of shaking their heads like going, wait a minute, how did we run up a $10 trillion debt in a Republican administration? How have there been blunders with war strategy under a Republican administration? If we're talking change, we want to get far away from what it was that the present administration represented and that is to a great degree what the Republican Party at the time had been representing," Palin said in a story published Sunday.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sign in to follow this